A very good foundational summary overall. That the Egyptians performed great feats of engineering means they had to have at least some applied mathematical expertise. I have a few quibbles about Nun.
I'm not sure if Nun is best equated with infinite potential, since the concept of infinity belongs more appropriately to the concepts of Djed and Neheh. Nor is it obvious that Nun is infinite potentiality from the texts: the creator deity (Atum, Ra, Horus, Ptah, etc.) often uses his own words (or spit or semen) to create the Gods, and humans often come from his eye. The Nun seems to have had the property of renewal and sustainment; if one assumes that bathing in water is symbolically returning to the original state of "the First Time" then the potentiality concept could hold, but only in the sense of a state of being and not a storehouse of possible building blocks of the universe.
I'm equally uncomfortable with the Nun as the realm of Platonic forms...if such Forms exist in the divine mind, as per Platonism, then Thoth and/or the creator God would be the more appropriate location of them. The Egyptians do not seem to have developed a systematic philosophy about ontology (forms, essence, substance) in the way the Greeks did, so any comparison with Platonism will be tenuous. I should add I am a dirty Aristotelian, so this may just be sour grapes on my part.
I'm more of the opinion that mathematics are limitations people put on themselves to measure the universe, rather than independently existing objects. Insomuch as mathematics is universal, it is because reality is universal and our minds share common attributes that make mathematics cross-cultural. This however is a deeper and separate philosophical issue.
In my opinion and based on my research I believe Nun is related to the concept of Prima Materia: The Philosophical and Alchemical First Substance
Prima Materia (Latin for "first matter") is a concept originating in ancient philosophy and alchemy, referring to the fundamental substance from which all things originate. It represents the raw, formless essence of the universe, out of which transformation, creation, and perfection occur. This idea has played a central role in alchemy, Hermeticism, and metaphysics.
1. Prima Materia in Ancient Philosophy
The idea of Prima Materia can be traced back to pre-Socratic Greek philosophers and was later expanded by Plato and Aristotle:
Thales of Miletus (6th Century BCE)
Proposed that water was the fundamental principle of all things (after a visit to Egypt.)
Plato (c. 427–347 BCE)
Plato, in his work Timaeus, suggested that the material world is formed from a pre-existing, shapeless substratum that is given form by the Demiurge (the divine craftsman). This shapeless substance is akin to Prima Materia.
Here, I see Thoth as the divine craftsman who gives form to things when he names them – as in Shabaka stone Memphite Theology.
"Everything that becomes must necessarily do so owing to some cause; for nothing can come to be without a cause." (Plato, Timaeus, c. 360 BCE.)
As I say, Thoth’s naming is not exactly the same as Plato’s form but it is similar in that the name gived the thing it’s form or shape, anture, substance etc - it brings it into existence. All chairs are chairs in the same way as Plato’s form of chair even if in reality they different in many respects - in essence they are still chairs.
Aristotle (384–322 BCE)
Aristotle introduced the concept of hylomorphism, which states that all things are composed of matter (hyle) and form (morphe). He described Prima Materia as:
"That which is in potentiality to all things but in actuality to none." (Aristotle, Metaphysics, Book VII.)
This means that Prima Materia lacks form but has the potential to become any form when shaped by substantial form.
3. Prima Materia in Mysticism and Esotericism
Hermeticism
· In Hermetic texts, Prima Materia is linked to the chaotic waters of Nun (Egyptian cosmology), from which creation emerges.
Gnosticism
Some Gnostic sects believed the material world was made from Prima Materia, but trapped by the Demiurge.
The human soul was considered "divine Prima Materia", capable of returning to its original divine state.
Kabbalah
In Kabbalistic thought, Prima Materia relates to Ain Soph (the boundless, formless source of all creation).
The Sephirot represent gradual emanations of Prima Materia into the manifest world.
Nun (or Nu) is one of the most ancient and fundamental concepts in Egyptian cosmology. It represents the primordial waters of chaos from which the world emerged. This cosmic ocean existed before creation, and from it, the creator deity—often Atum or Re—brought forth the ordered universe. Nun was not destroyed during creation but remained as a latent force, existing beyond the structured cosmos.
1. Jan Assmann on Nun as the Primordial Abyss
Egyptologist Jan Assmann explores Nun as a metaphysical and theological foundation in Egyptian thought: "Nun is the uncreated and chaotic state from which creation continually emerges. It represents the potentiality of existence, the formless state that precedes all form and order." (Assmann, J. (2001). The Search for God in Ancient Egypt. Cornell University Press.) Assmann highlights that Nun does not "cease" to exist after creation but remains as the background to the structured cosmos, influencing cycles of renewal, destruction, and rebirth.
2. Erik Hornung on Nun and Cosmic Continuity
Egyptologist Erik Hornung, known for his studies on ancient Egyptian cosmology, writes: "Nun is both the beginning and the ever-present surrounding force. While creation emerged from it, Nun persists as the infinite ocean beyond the cosmos, ready to reclaim the world at the end of time." (Hornung, E. (1999). The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife. Cornell University Press.) Hornung describes Nun as the ever-present source of rejuvenation, necessary for cosmic continuity and destruction, playing a role in both renewal rituals and apocalyptic myths.
3. The Role of Nun in Egyptian Creation Myths
Nun appears prominently in Egyptian creation narratives:
In the Heliopolitan Cosmogony: The god Atum emerges from Nun to create the first land (the primordial mound). (Pinch, G. (2004). Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses, and Traditions of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press.)
In the Memphite Theology: Ptah shapes creation through intellectual and verbal command, but his existence still relies on Nun as the primal essence. (Quirke, S. (1992). Ancient Egyptian Religion. British Museum Press.)
In the Hermopolitan Ogdoad: Nun is part of a group of primordial deities (Ogdoad), representing the chaotic energies that existed before creation. (Belmonte, J.A. & Lull, J. (2023). Astronomy of Ancient Egypt: A Cultural Perspective. Springer. PDF)
4. The Symbolism and Ritual Functions of Nun
Nun was depicted in multiple ways in Egyptian religion and rituals:
The Sun's Daily Renewal: Every night, the sun god Re passed through Nun, where he battled Apophis, the chaos serpent. (Pires, G.B. (2019). "Before Time, After Time: Existential Time Markers in Ancient Egypt." Res Antiquitatis. PDF)
Floodwaters and Rebirth: The annual inundation of the Nile was seen as Nun's waters restoring fertility to the land. (Popielska-Grzybowska, J. (2015). "Nu, Continuity, and Everlastingness in the Pyramid Texts." Egypt.)
Protective Powers: Pharaohs were described as being born from Nun, symbolizing eternal kingship and divine legitimacy. (Siuda, T.L. (2022). The Complete Encyclopedia of Egyptian Deities. PDF)
5. Theological and Philosophical Interpretations of Nun
Nun as Infinite Possibility: Nun was not a god in the conventional sense but a state of existence, representing infinite possibilities and boundless potential. (Lorton, D. (1999). "The Theology of Cult Statues in Ancient Egypt." De Gruyter.)
Nun in Later Egyptian Thought: In Ptolemaic and Greco-Roman periods, Nun was merged with Hermetic traditions, linking it to concepts of the cosmic void and divine origin. (Benowitz, A. (2022). Myth and Cosmos in Ancient Egyptian History. PDF)
Conclusion
The Nun (Nu) concept in ancient Egyptian thought represents:
The Primordial Waters – A chaotic, boundless ocean from which creation arose.
A state of existence representing infinite possibilities and boundless potential.
Cosmic Renewal – A force involved in nightly and annual cycles of rebirth.
The Eternal Abyss – The unchanging background of reality, which still exists beyond the created universe.
These descriptions of Nun seem more like the Aristotelian concept of Potency: pure potential rather than say, a collection of fully distinct archetypal concepts. The notion of purification and renewal seem compatible with this "renewed potential" as well.
This may be contrasted with Forms in Platonism which already exist on their own as perfect exemplars of phenomena, manifested only imperfectly in the physical realm. What we don't get with descriptions of Nun are these separate archetypes, which might be more akin to the Gods themselves (and Neoplatonists certainly made that connection).
No discussion of Forms would be complete without the Good that is the highest Form, whose attributes seem more embodied in Ma'at, carrying as it does connotations of divine organizing principles and ethical norms, as opposed to Nun. Nun seems inert by itself, with the creator deity being the one who actualizes and conceptualizes phenomena.
I think you have a lot of really good points here that I agree with. I very much see the Nun as potenital, and you're right, there is an element of renewal in the nun. If you look at the fiaence blue bead nets used to cover mummies from the Middle Kingdom onwards, they are designed to imitate emersion in the water of Nun in my opinion (often they are described as linked to solar renewal.) The colour blue/green is strongly associated with water in ancient Egypt and I believe the ancient Egyptians thought they could be remade in the Nun. They could enter it in one state and leave in another having undergone a magical process of metamorphosis that enabled them to live in the underworld.
Also, I'm not saying the Egyptians had the exact equivalent to Plato's forms; they had their own version, which was the name Thoth gave; the Egyptian version is a sort of forerunner to Plato's pre-existing forms.
Your point about Ma'at is well made (What was good was harmonious and still is) as is your point about the inert nature of the Nun - it does nothing on its own, it needs a creator who conceptualises and actualises. In ancient Egypt, these aspects of creation were personsified in ancient Egypt these aspects of creation are personsified in the form of the gods - Heka is the god of magic itself, Sia represents perception and the power of thought, and Hu personifies the creative utterance or the "first word" used to bring creation into being; essentially, Heka is the power of magic, Sia is the mental capacity to conceive it, and Hu is the spoken word that manifests that creation.
I'm admittedly undecided as to how much direct influence Egypt had on Greek philosophy. There was certainly contact and hence some sort of exchange, and they both had the innate longing for the same concepts we see across religions. At the same time, I'm not willing to point at specific ideas and say one influenced the other without concrete proof.
Sure some Greeks credited Egypt with their ideas, but this may be a way of giving more credibility to their philosophy by attributing it to that more ancient culture. Egypt was held in high regard by them, and perhaps idealized as this mysterious source of all wisdom, but it's difficult to parse out how much is fan fiction about Egypt versus authentic appraisals.
Sia, Hu and Heka seem to be deified attributes of the creator; together with Ma'at they form a sort of complex the Greeks would recognize as the Logos (although see my prior article for how the Ma'at precedes the Logos).
Thanks for getting back to me. I think all your points are good and well made.
My findings point to the ancient Egyptians having an influence on the Greeks who visited Egypt, but as far as I can see, the Greeks took the ideas they learned and then, because they were much freer to think their own thoughts and experiment (the Egyptians were constrained by their conception of the cosmos, religion, and tradition), they changed, adapted, and developed the ideas further. I am strongly of the opinion that Greek thought is the foundation of modern scientific thinking. I also convinced Egypt was the source of much Catholic doctrine and ritual—a story that has yet to be told.
· Djet (ḏt) – signifying linear, unchanging eternity ( of the grave or tomb, for example).
Neheh was linked to the daily rebirth of the sun, while Djet was associated with the unchanging afterlife of the gods and deceased kings. This dual conception of time underscores the Egyptians' unique worldview in which time was both recurring and continuous.
1. Jan Assmann on Neheh and Djet
Renowned Egyptologist Jan Assmann provides an in-depth analysis of Neheh: "Neheh is time as a cycle, the time of repetition, periodicity, and renewal. It is the time of the gods and of the world in its vital aspect, whereas Djet represents eternal immutability." (Assmann, J. (2003). The Mind of Egypt: History and Meaning in the Time of the Pharaohs. Harvard University Press.) Assmann also argues that Neheh was directly linked to the reign of the pharaoh, ensuring that his rule was constantly rejuvenated and renewed through ritual and divine order.
2. Erik Hornung on the Temporal Dualism
Egyptologist Erik Hornung, known for his studies on Egyptian religious texts, describes Neheh as "eternal recurrence": "Neheh is not an infinite extension of time but rather a time of continuous rebirth, tied to the cycle of the cosmos and, in particular, the sun god Re." (Hornung, E. (2006). Ancient Egyptian Chronology. Brill.) Hornung also notes that Neheh and Djet are often personified, with Neheh representing the living force of time, especially in relation to solar deities.
3. Neheh in Egyptian Philosophy and Religion
Several Egyptologists have explored the deeper implications of Neheh in Egyptian cosmology: Quirke (1994) describes how Neheh represents a "cycle of rebirth," especially in the religious texts of the New Kingdom. (Quirke, S. (1994). Translating Ma'at. JSTOR. Link)
Servajean (2008) highlights Neheh’s connection to Osiris and Re, demonstrating how these two gods embodied both cyclical rebirth and eternal permanence. (Servajean, F. (2008). "Duality in Egyptian Time." UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology. )
(Note: I will deal with Servajean and the concept of duality in later chapters of Exploring Sacred Numbers in Ancient Egypt. I’m not saying he’s wrong about duality being a dominant characteristic of ancient Egyptian thought; rather I am saying division is an essential state of being. To exist, one must be divided because unity is to return to the formlessness of the Nun. Atum creates himself by diving himself from the Nun in an act of spontaneous creation; he then divides his own substance into his children, and so the world begins. At birth, the child is divided from the mother and the baby from the placenta and the body is thought to be divided into eight separate physical and metaphysical parts Khat (ꜥḫ.t) – The Physical Body, Ka (kꜣ) – The Vital Force (Life Energy), Ba (bꜣ) – The Personality or Soul, Akh (ꜥḫ), the Ib (jb) – The Heart (Seat of Emotion and Morality), Sheut (šwt) – The Shadow, A spiritual double that followed a person throughout life and death, Ren (rn) – The True Name that carried their essence and destiny, the Sahu (sꜣḥ) – The Spiritual Body or the Ka, Ba, and Akh in harmony. The land of Egypt is always shown as divided and bound together etc.)
Nyord (2013) states that Neheh was associated with festivals and rituals, ensuring the renewal of divine and kingly power. (Nyord, R. (2013). "Egyptian Concepts of Time." Mirrors of Passing: Unlocking the Mysteries of Death. De Gruyter. PDF)
4. Neheh in Ritual and Cosmology
The Osirian connection: In funerary texts, Osiris is described as the "Lord of Neheh", indicating his role in the endless cycles of life, death, and rebirth. (Petacchi, S. (2024). "The Evidence of Osiris Lord of Neheh-Eternity in Amun Temple B 700." Brill. Link)
Royal association: The pharaoh's time on earth was considered Neheh, representing the cycles of rulership. His death marked his entry into Djet, the eternal state. (Autuori, J.C. (2020). "The Concept of 'Dynasty' in Egyptian Chronography." ORIENTALIA LOVANIENSIA ANALECTA. Link)
Conclusion
· The concept of Neheh was a crucial element in ancient Egyptian time perception:
· Cyclical and Regenerative – Tied to the daily rebirth of the sun and periodic festivals.
· Linked to Royal Power – Ensured the continuous renewal of kingship and divine order.
· Counterpart to Djet – Represented the living, changing world, as opposed to Djet’s fixed eternity associated with the buried dead.
· Found in Religious Texts – Frequently associated with Re (solar renewal) and Osiris (resurrection cycles).
I don’t mind that you’re a ‘dirty Aristotelian’; it’s just great to correspond with someone who shares my bizarre interests in ancient Egyptian cosmology and theology. So, thanks for responding to my request for comments. By the way, although I’m going to disagree with you on the substantive issue of the nature of Nun, Djed and Neheh, I wholly agree with you that the universality of mathematics is a reflection of the universality of reality.
So, let’s get started with the evidence which I’ll send in sections on different posts so I don’t wreck Substack’s brain!
The Djed Symbol in Egyptology
The Djed is one of the most significant symbols in ancient Egyptian religion, often associated with stability, endurance, and resurrection. It is commonly interpreted as the backbone of Osiris, linking it to themes of death, rebirth, and the afterlife. It also played an essential role in festivals and religious rituals, such as the "Raising of the Djed" ceremony, symbolising Osiris's resurrection and restoring order.
Below are scholarly insights on the Djed symbol from prominent Egyptologists, including Jan Assmann and Erik Hornung.
1. Jan Assmann on the Djed Symbol
Egyptologist Jan Assmann interprets the Djed pillar in a broader religious and cosmological framework. He states: "The Djed is a hieroglyphic sign that embodies the essence of endurance, continuity, and stability in the Egyptian cosmos. Its connection to Osiris signifies the permanence of divine rule and the unchanging nature of Ma'at." (Assmann, J. (2005). Death and Salvation in Ancient Egypt. Cornell University Press.) Assmann also emphasizes the political symbolism of the Djed, suggesting that it was not only a funerary emblem but also a representation of the pharaoh's eternal rule. (Note: eternity is time that never ends or that has no limits, this is only one aspect of Nun.)
(Note, as much as I admire Assmann I disagree with him about the nature of ma’at as you will see in chapter one of Exploring Sacred Numbers in Ancient Egypt – I believe the origin of ma’at to be the concept Martin and I have termed ‘Prefect time’, that is the 360-day year that nests inside the 365-day imperfect year created by Thoth.)
2. Erik Hornung on the Djed Pillar and Osiris
Egyptologist Erik Hornung, a specialist in Egyptian religious texts, discusses the Djed pillar as an aniconic representation of Osiris:"The Djed pillar, originally an independent cult symbol, was later absorbed into Osirian theology, where it came to represent the god's spine. It symbolized the indestructibility of Osiris and the permanence of the afterlife." (Hornung, E. (1999). The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife. Cornell University Press.) Hornung also highlights that the ritual of raising the Djed was a theatrical reenactment of Osiris's resurrection, demonstrating the victory of life over death.
3. The Djed in Religious and Ritual Contexts
Several other Egyptologists have explored the Djed's ritualistic and cosmic significance: Watson (2010) notes that the Djed is a "pillar of stability" in Egyptian religious thought, often depicted alongside the Ankh (life) and Was (power) symbols. (Watson, J. (2010). "Information on the Use and Meaning of Symbols in Egyptian Religion." University of Arizona.). Taylor & Vandenbeusch (2018) discuss its use in burial iconography, stating: "The Djed is frequently depicted on coffins and funerary papyri as a protective symbol ensuring the deceased's stability and resurrection." (Taylor, J.H. & Vandenbeusch, M. (2018). "Ancient Egyptian Coffins." Academia.edu.). Belmonte, Shaltout & Fekri (2009) analyze its astronomical connections, suggesting the Djed's orientation in temples may symbolize cosmic stability. (Belmonte, J.A., Shaltout, M., & Fekri, M. (2009). "Astronomy, Landscape and Symbolism: A Study of the Orientation of Ancient Egyptian Temples." ResearchGate. )
Sørensen (2020) highlights the abstract meaning of the Djed, suggesting that its symbolism extends beyond Osiris to broader Egyptian metaphysical concepts. (Sørensen, J.P. (2020). "The Real Presence of Osiris: Iconic, Semi-Iconic, and Aniconic Ritual Representations of an Egyptian God." Taylor & Francis.)
Conclusion
The Djed pillar is a multi-layered symbol in Egyptian religion and culture. It represents:
• Osiris's backbone – A symbol of resurrection and immortality.
• Stability and endurance through time – Foundational to Egyptian afterlife beliefs.
• Political power – Used by pharaohs to symbolize eternal rule.
• Religious rituals – Central to the "Raising of the Djed" ceremony.
This is an excellent summary of Neheh and Djed, one I will draw on in my own studies. I am looking forward to how you will connect Ma'at to these ideas in the context of the days of the year and the degrees of a circle.
Thanks so much for your lengthy and thoughtful reponse, I really appreciate it. I will take a good look at it and get back to you with my thoughts. In the meantime many thanks. Best regards Julia.
A very good foundational summary overall. That the Egyptians performed great feats of engineering means they had to have at least some applied mathematical expertise. I have a few quibbles about Nun.
I'm not sure if Nun is best equated with infinite potential, since the concept of infinity belongs more appropriately to the concepts of Djed and Neheh. Nor is it obvious that Nun is infinite potentiality from the texts: the creator deity (Atum, Ra, Horus, Ptah, etc.) often uses his own words (or spit or semen) to create the Gods, and humans often come from his eye. The Nun seems to have had the property of renewal and sustainment; if one assumes that bathing in water is symbolically returning to the original state of "the First Time" then the potentiality concept could hold, but only in the sense of a state of being and not a storehouse of possible building blocks of the universe.
I'm equally uncomfortable with the Nun as the realm of Platonic forms...if such Forms exist in the divine mind, as per Platonism, then Thoth and/or the creator God would be the more appropriate location of them. The Egyptians do not seem to have developed a systematic philosophy about ontology (forms, essence, substance) in the way the Greeks did, so any comparison with Platonism will be tenuous. I should add I am a dirty Aristotelian, so this may just be sour grapes on my part.
I'm more of the opinion that mathematics are limitations people put on themselves to measure the universe, rather than independently existing objects. Insomuch as mathematics is universal, it is because reality is universal and our minds share common attributes that make mathematics cross-cultural. This however is a deeper and separate philosophical issue.
In my opinion and based on my research I believe Nun is related to the concept of Prima Materia: The Philosophical and Alchemical First Substance
Prima Materia (Latin for "first matter") is a concept originating in ancient philosophy and alchemy, referring to the fundamental substance from which all things originate. It represents the raw, formless essence of the universe, out of which transformation, creation, and perfection occur. This idea has played a central role in alchemy, Hermeticism, and metaphysics.
1. Prima Materia in Ancient Philosophy
The idea of Prima Materia can be traced back to pre-Socratic Greek philosophers and was later expanded by Plato and Aristotle:
Thales of Miletus (6th Century BCE)
Proposed that water was the fundamental principle of all things (after a visit to Egypt.)
Plato (c. 427–347 BCE)
Plato, in his work Timaeus, suggested that the material world is formed from a pre-existing, shapeless substratum that is given form by the Demiurge (the divine craftsman). This shapeless substance is akin to Prima Materia.
Here, I see Thoth as the divine craftsman who gives form to things when he names them – as in Shabaka stone Memphite Theology.
"Everything that becomes must necessarily do so owing to some cause; for nothing can come to be without a cause." (Plato, Timaeus, c. 360 BCE.)
As I say, Thoth’s naming is not exactly the same as Plato’s form but it is similar in that the name gived the thing it’s form or shape, anture, substance etc - it brings it into existence. All chairs are chairs in the same way as Plato’s form of chair even if in reality they different in many respects - in essence they are still chairs.
Aristotle (384–322 BCE)
Aristotle introduced the concept of hylomorphism, which states that all things are composed of matter (hyle) and form (morphe). He described Prima Materia as:
"That which is in potentiality to all things but in actuality to none." (Aristotle, Metaphysics, Book VII.)
This means that Prima Materia lacks form but has the potential to become any form when shaped by substantial form.
3. Prima Materia in Mysticism and Esotericism
Hermeticism
· In Hermetic texts, Prima Materia is linked to the chaotic waters of Nun (Egyptian cosmology), from which creation emerges.
Gnosticism
Some Gnostic sects believed the material world was made from Prima Materia, but trapped by the Demiurge.
The human soul was considered "divine Prima Materia", capable of returning to its original divine state.
Kabbalah
In Kabbalistic thought, Prima Materia relates to Ain Soph (the boundless, formless source of all creation).
The Sephirot represent gradual emanations of Prima Materia into the manifest world.
The Concept of Nun (Nu) in Egyptology
Nun (or Nu) is one of the most ancient and fundamental concepts in Egyptian cosmology. It represents the primordial waters of chaos from which the world emerged. This cosmic ocean existed before creation, and from it, the creator deity—often Atum or Re—brought forth the ordered universe. Nun was not destroyed during creation but remained as a latent force, existing beyond the structured cosmos.
1. Jan Assmann on Nun as the Primordial Abyss
Egyptologist Jan Assmann explores Nun as a metaphysical and theological foundation in Egyptian thought: "Nun is the uncreated and chaotic state from which creation continually emerges. It represents the potentiality of existence, the formless state that precedes all form and order." (Assmann, J. (2001). The Search for God in Ancient Egypt. Cornell University Press.) Assmann highlights that Nun does not "cease" to exist after creation but remains as the background to the structured cosmos, influencing cycles of renewal, destruction, and rebirth.
2. Erik Hornung on Nun and Cosmic Continuity
Egyptologist Erik Hornung, known for his studies on ancient Egyptian cosmology, writes: "Nun is both the beginning and the ever-present surrounding force. While creation emerged from it, Nun persists as the infinite ocean beyond the cosmos, ready to reclaim the world at the end of time." (Hornung, E. (1999). The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife. Cornell University Press.) Hornung describes Nun as the ever-present source of rejuvenation, necessary for cosmic continuity and destruction, playing a role in both renewal rituals and apocalyptic myths.
3. The Role of Nun in Egyptian Creation Myths
Nun appears prominently in Egyptian creation narratives:
In the Heliopolitan Cosmogony: The god Atum emerges from Nun to create the first land (the primordial mound). (Pinch, G. (2004). Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses, and Traditions of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press.)
In the Memphite Theology: Ptah shapes creation through intellectual and verbal command, but his existence still relies on Nun as the primal essence. (Quirke, S. (1992). Ancient Egyptian Religion. British Museum Press.)
In the Hermopolitan Ogdoad: Nun is part of a group of primordial deities (Ogdoad), representing the chaotic energies that existed before creation. (Belmonte, J.A. & Lull, J. (2023). Astronomy of Ancient Egypt: A Cultural Perspective. Springer. PDF)
4. The Symbolism and Ritual Functions of Nun
Nun was depicted in multiple ways in Egyptian religion and rituals:
The Sun's Daily Renewal: Every night, the sun god Re passed through Nun, where he battled Apophis, the chaos serpent. (Pires, G.B. (2019). "Before Time, After Time: Existential Time Markers in Ancient Egypt." Res Antiquitatis. PDF)
Floodwaters and Rebirth: The annual inundation of the Nile was seen as Nun's waters restoring fertility to the land. (Popielska-Grzybowska, J. (2015). "Nu, Continuity, and Everlastingness in the Pyramid Texts." Egypt.)
Protective Powers: Pharaohs were described as being born from Nun, symbolizing eternal kingship and divine legitimacy. (Siuda, T.L. (2022). The Complete Encyclopedia of Egyptian Deities. PDF)
5. Theological and Philosophical Interpretations of Nun
Nun as Infinite Possibility: Nun was not a god in the conventional sense but a state of existence, representing infinite possibilities and boundless potential. (Lorton, D. (1999). "The Theology of Cult Statues in Ancient Egypt." De Gruyter.)
Nun in Later Egyptian Thought: In Ptolemaic and Greco-Roman periods, Nun was merged with Hermetic traditions, linking it to concepts of the cosmic void and divine origin. (Benowitz, A. (2022). Myth and Cosmos in Ancient Egyptian History. PDF)
Conclusion
The Nun (Nu) concept in ancient Egyptian thought represents:
The Primordial Waters – A chaotic, boundless ocean from which creation arose.
A state of existence representing infinite possibilities and boundless potential.
Cosmic Renewal – A force involved in nightly and annual cycles of rebirth.
The Eternal Abyss – The unchanging background of reality, which still exists beyond the created universe.
These descriptions of Nun seem more like the Aristotelian concept of Potency: pure potential rather than say, a collection of fully distinct archetypal concepts. The notion of purification and renewal seem compatible with this "renewed potential" as well.
This may be contrasted with Forms in Platonism which already exist on their own as perfect exemplars of phenomena, manifested only imperfectly in the physical realm. What we don't get with descriptions of Nun are these separate archetypes, which might be more akin to the Gods themselves (and Neoplatonists certainly made that connection).
No discussion of Forms would be complete without the Good that is the highest Form, whose attributes seem more embodied in Ma'at, carrying as it does connotations of divine organizing principles and ethical norms, as opposed to Nun. Nun seems inert by itself, with the creator deity being the one who actualizes and conceptualizes phenomena.
I think you have a lot of really good points here that I agree with. I very much see the Nun as potenital, and you're right, there is an element of renewal in the nun. If you look at the fiaence blue bead nets used to cover mummies from the Middle Kingdom onwards, they are designed to imitate emersion in the water of Nun in my opinion (often they are described as linked to solar renewal.) The colour blue/green is strongly associated with water in ancient Egypt and I believe the ancient Egyptians thought they could be remade in the Nun. They could enter it in one state and leave in another having undergone a magical process of metamorphosis that enabled them to live in the underworld.
Also, I'm not saying the Egyptians had the exact equivalent to Plato's forms; they had their own version, which was the name Thoth gave; the Egyptian version is a sort of forerunner to Plato's pre-existing forms.
Your point about Ma'at is well made (What was good was harmonious and still is) as is your point about the inert nature of the Nun - it does nothing on its own, it needs a creator who conceptualises and actualises. In ancient Egypt, these aspects of creation were personsified in ancient Egypt these aspects of creation are personsified in the form of the gods - Heka is the god of magic itself, Sia represents perception and the power of thought, and Hu personifies the creative utterance or the "first word" used to bring creation into being; essentially, Heka is the power of magic, Sia is the mental capacity to conceive it, and Hu is the spoken word that manifests that creation.
I'm admittedly undecided as to how much direct influence Egypt had on Greek philosophy. There was certainly contact and hence some sort of exchange, and they both had the innate longing for the same concepts we see across religions. At the same time, I'm not willing to point at specific ideas and say one influenced the other without concrete proof.
Sure some Greeks credited Egypt with their ideas, but this may be a way of giving more credibility to their philosophy by attributing it to that more ancient culture. Egypt was held in high regard by them, and perhaps idealized as this mysterious source of all wisdom, but it's difficult to parse out how much is fan fiction about Egypt versus authentic appraisals.
Sia, Hu and Heka seem to be deified attributes of the creator; together with Ma'at they form a sort of complex the Greeks would recognize as the Logos (although see my prior article for how the Ma'at precedes the Logos).
Yes, all good points, well made, Horus.
Good morning, Horus,
Thanks for getting back to me. I think all your points are good and well made.
My findings point to the ancient Egyptians having an influence on the Greeks who visited Egypt, but as far as I can see, the Greeks took the ideas they learned and then, because they were much freer to think their own thoughts and experiment (the Egyptians were constrained by their conception of the cosmos, religion, and tradition), they changed, adapted, and developed the ideas further. I am strongly of the opinion that Greek thought is the foundation of modern scientific thinking. I also convinced Egypt was the source of much Catholic doctrine and ritual—a story that has yet to be told.
The Concept of Neheh in Egyptology
The ancient Egyptian concept of time was dualistic, consisting of two fundamental ideas:
· Neheh (nḥḥ) – representing cyclical, regenerative time.
· Djet (ḏt) – signifying linear, unchanging eternity ( of the grave or tomb, for example).
Neheh was linked to the daily rebirth of the sun, while Djet was associated with the unchanging afterlife of the gods and deceased kings. This dual conception of time underscores the Egyptians' unique worldview in which time was both recurring and continuous.
1. Jan Assmann on Neheh and Djet
Renowned Egyptologist Jan Assmann provides an in-depth analysis of Neheh: "Neheh is time as a cycle, the time of repetition, periodicity, and renewal. It is the time of the gods and of the world in its vital aspect, whereas Djet represents eternal immutability." (Assmann, J. (2003). The Mind of Egypt: History and Meaning in the Time of the Pharaohs. Harvard University Press.) Assmann also argues that Neheh was directly linked to the reign of the pharaoh, ensuring that his rule was constantly rejuvenated and renewed through ritual and divine order.
2. Erik Hornung on the Temporal Dualism
Egyptologist Erik Hornung, known for his studies on Egyptian religious texts, describes Neheh as "eternal recurrence": "Neheh is not an infinite extension of time but rather a time of continuous rebirth, tied to the cycle of the cosmos and, in particular, the sun god Re." (Hornung, E. (2006). Ancient Egyptian Chronology. Brill.) Hornung also notes that Neheh and Djet are often personified, with Neheh representing the living force of time, especially in relation to solar deities.
3. Neheh in Egyptian Philosophy and Religion
Several Egyptologists have explored the deeper implications of Neheh in Egyptian cosmology: Quirke (1994) describes how Neheh represents a "cycle of rebirth," especially in the religious texts of the New Kingdom. (Quirke, S. (1994). Translating Ma'at. JSTOR. Link)
Servajean (2008) highlights Neheh’s connection to Osiris and Re, demonstrating how these two gods embodied both cyclical rebirth and eternal permanence. (Servajean, F. (2008). "Duality in Egyptian Time." UCLA Encyclopedia of Egyptology. )
(Note: I will deal with Servajean and the concept of duality in later chapters of Exploring Sacred Numbers in Ancient Egypt. I’m not saying he’s wrong about duality being a dominant characteristic of ancient Egyptian thought; rather I am saying division is an essential state of being. To exist, one must be divided because unity is to return to the formlessness of the Nun. Atum creates himself by diving himself from the Nun in an act of spontaneous creation; he then divides his own substance into his children, and so the world begins. At birth, the child is divided from the mother and the baby from the placenta and the body is thought to be divided into eight separate physical and metaphysical parts Khat (ꜥḫ.t) – The Physical Body, Ka (kꜣ) – The Vital Force (Life Energy), Ba (bꜣ) – The Personality or Soul, Akh (ꜥḫ), the Ib (jb) – The Heart (Seat of Emotion and Morality), Sheut (šwt) – The Shadow, A spiritual double that followed a person throughout life and death, Ren (rn) – The True Name that carried their essence and destiny, the Sahu (sꜣḥ) – The Spiritual Body or the Ka, Ba, and Akh in harmony. The land of Egypt is always shown as divided and bound together etc.)
Nyord (2013) states that Neheh was associated with festivals and rituals, ensuring the renewal of divine and kingly power. (Nyord, R. (2013). "Egyptian Concepts of Time." Mirrors of Passing: Unlocking the Mysteries of Death. De Gruyter. PDF)
4. Neheh in Ritual and Cosmology
The Osirian connection: In funerary texts, Osiris is described as the "Lord of Neheh", indicating his role in the endless cycles of life, death, and rebirth. (Petacchi, S. (2024). "The Evidence of Osiris Lord of Neheh-Eternity in Amun Temple B 700." Brill. Link)
Royal association: The pharaoh's time on earth was considered Neheh, representing the cycles of rulership. His death marked his entry into Djet, the eternal state. (Autuori, J.C. (2020). "The Concept of 'Dynasty' in Egyptian Chronography." ORIENTALIA LOVANIENSIA ANALECTA. Link)
Conclusion
· The concept of Neheh was a crucial element in ancient Egyptian time perception:
· Cyclical and Regenerative – Tied to the daily rebirth of the sun and periodic festivals.
· Linked to Royal Power – Ensured the continuous renewal of kingship and divine order.
· Counterpart to Djet – Represented the living, changing world, as opposed to Djet’s fixed eternity associated with the buried dead.
· Found in Religious Texts – Frequently associated with Re (solar renewal) and Osiris (resurrection cycles).
Hi Horus,
I don’t mind that you’re a ‘dirty Aristotelian’; it’s just great to correspond with someone who shares my bizarre interests in ancient Egyptian cosmology and theology. So, thanks for responding to my request for comments. By the way, although I’m going to disagree with you on the substantive issue of the nature of Nun, Djed and Neheh, I wholly agree with you that the universality of mathematics is a reflection of the universality of reality.
So, let’s get started with the evidence which I’ll send in sections on different posts so I don’t wreck Substack’s brain!
The Djed Symbol in Egyptology
The Djed is one of the most significant symbols in ancient Egyptian religion, often associated with stability, endurance, and resurrection. It is commonly interpreted as the backbone of Osiris, linking it to themes of death, rebirth, and the afterlife. It also played an essential role in festivals and religious rituals, such as the "Raising of the Djed" ceremony, symbolising Osiris's resurrection and restoring order.
Below are scholarly insights on the Djed symbol from prominent Egyptologists, including Jan Assmann and Erik Hornung.
1. Jan Assmann on the Djed Symbol
Egyptologist Jan Assmann interprets the Djed pillar in a broader religious and cosmological framework. He states: "The Djed is a hieroglyphic sign that embodies the essence of endurance, continuity, and stability in the Egyptian cosmos. Its connection to Osiris signifies the permanence of divine rule and the unchanging nature of Ma'at." (Assmann, J. (2005). Death and Salvation in Ancient Egypt. Cornell University Press.) Assmann also emphasizes the political symbolism of the Djed, suggesting that it was not only a funerary emblem but also a representation of the pharaoh's eternal rule. (Note: eternity is time that never ends or that has no limits, this is only one aspect of Nun.)
(Note, as much as I admire Assmann I disagree with him about the nature of ma’at as you will see in chapter one of Exploring Sacred Numbers in Ancient Egypt – I believe the origin of ma’at to be the concept Martin and I have termed ‘Prefect time’, that is the 360-day year that nests inside the 365-day imperfect year created by Thoth.)
2. Erik Hornung on the Djed Pillar and Osiris
Egyptologist Erik Hornung, a specialist in Egyptian religious texts, discusses the Djed pillar as an aniconic representation of Osiris:"The Djed pillar, originally an independent cult symbol, was later absorbed into Osirian theology, where it came to represent the god's spine. It symbolized the indestructibility of Osiris and the permanence of the afterlife." (Hornung, E. (1999). The Ancient Egyptian Books of the Afterlife. Cornell University Press.) Hornung also highlights that the ritual of raising the Djed was a theatrical reenactment of Osiris's resurrection, demonstrating the victory of life over death.
3. The Djed in Religious and Ritual Contexts
Several other Egyptologists have explored the Djed's ritualistic and cosmic significance: Watson (2010) notes that the Djed is a "pillar of stability" in Egyptian religious thought, often depicted alongside the Ankh (life) and Was (power) symbols. (Watson, J. (2010). "Information on the Use and Meaning of Symbols in Egyptian Religion." University of Arizona.). Taylor & Vandenbeusch (2018) discuss its use in burial iconography, stating: "The Djed is frequently depicted on coffins and funerary papyri as a protective symbol ensuring the deceased's stability and resurrection." (Taylor, J.H. & Vandenbeusch, M. (2018). "Ancient Egyptian Coffins." Academia.edu.). Belmonte, Shaltout & Fekri (2009) analyze its astronomical connections, suggesting the Djed's orientation in temples may symbolize cosmic stability. (Belmonte, J.A., Shaltout, M., & Fekri, M. (2009). "Astronomy, Landscape and Symbolism: A Study of the Orientation of Ancient Egyptian Temples." ResearchGate. )
Sørensen (2020) highlights the abstract meaning of the Djed, suggesting that its symbolism extends beyond Osiris to broader Egyptian metaphysical concepts. (Sørensen, J.P. (2020). "The Real Presence of Osiris: Iconic, Semi-Iconic, and Aniconic Ritual Representations of an Egyptian God." Taylor & Francis.)
Conclusion
The Djed pillar is a multi-layered symbol in Egyptian religion and culture. It represents:
• Osiris's backbone – A symbol of resurrection and immortality.
• Stability and endurance through time – Foundational to Egyptian afterlife beliefs.
• Political power – Used by pharaohs to symbolize eternal rule.
• Religious rituals – Central to the "Raising of the Djed" ceremony.
This is an excellent summary of Neheh and Djed, one I will draw on in my own studies. I am looking forward to how you will connect Ma'at to these ideas in the context of the days of the year and the degrees of a circle.
Thanks so much for your lengthy and thoughtful reponse, I really appreciate it. I will take a good look at it and get back to you with my thoughts. In the meantime many thanks. Best regards Julia.